The models at DOMAI remind me of the times I've spent hanging out at nudist resorts. The people there are also confident, open, and at ease with their nudity -- in addition to their being completely accepting of your nudity, too.
But you know, the models at DOMAI are almost non-sexual. Just like nudists are almost non-sexual. That last fact completely surprises most non-nudists.
So, when I'm looking for sexy porn, I usually go somewhere else. When I'm looking for beauty, I go to DOMAI.
"So, tell me again why it's progressive to support porn?"
I was very short on sleep when I posted early, Astasia, and I failed to address your question but instead rambled on about my favorite nudes. Sorry about that. I love nudes, but that's irrelevant here.
More to the point, I've gotten some rest, and a couple reasons Progressives might want to consider supporting first amendment rights when it comes to porn have popped into my head.
First, there are those nagging studies of Japan, Denmark, the US, and other countries that have found a strong correlation between legalizing porn and declining rates of violence towards women.
It would be one thing if only one or two countries had been studied. Or if the correlations discovered were rather weak. But several countries have been studied and the correlation between easy, legal availability of porn and declining rates of rape, incest, molestation, etc. is just too strong to ignore.
To sum: When a society allows porn, rates of rape, etc decline.
A second reason Progressives might want to consider supporting first amendment rights regarding porn is to prevent the Right or Left from using porn as an excuse to censor political speech.
It seems the case that whenever some bastard politician wants to censor political speech he or she first proposes that porn be censored in order to protect children. And once that censorship is allowed, once the foot of censorship is in the door, the next step is to censor political speech.
So to prevent that process, Progressives might wish to support first amendment rights regarding porn.
Those are two reasons I feel are strong ones for why porn rights should be supported by Progressives.
I'm with Paul on this one. I've always enjoyed nudes and non-penetrative lesbian porn, but once you start getting XXX it turns me off. I still feel like a hypocrite, because I feel exploitative if I visit a strip club (or even somewhere like Hooters). I guess with the modest porn I enjoy the women have already had their pictures taken, I'm just enjoying what is already out there to be taken freely. Mostly I have 100 or so images on my HD that I've kept around for years (some of them a decade old or more) but when I do find new stuff it's on places like Domai or MET.
I agree with the venn diagram, and I wasn't aware that it was progressive to support porn. Maybe to support the freedom of expression, although with the racism, violence, and exploitation I've never felt it to be progressive. The idea that "these girls know what they are getting into" or "it's their choice" argument smack of free market lack of regulation speech to me.
Paul, could you link me to the studies that find correlations between more porn and better treatment of women? I've never heard that argument before.
I understand the free speech idea...I'm certainly not saying that we need to censor all pornography, but I think there is something disturbing about the trends in pornography. It seems to be progressively getting more violent, more sexist (and maybe more racist?). And this is not referring to nude photography (although, some nudes can be rather disturbing as well) - I mean hardcore pornography. Anal sex and gangbangs are now common place; perhaps almost passe and naive.
And, while it may be somewhat disturbing to think of thirty year olds watching these trends, I think we have to be realistic and understand that there are also fourteen year olds accessing this type of pornography. What happens when this hardcore, degrading, sexist, violent porn becomes your norm? I'm worried about it. That's why I hope that your study is right and I'm wrong.
Sean, I have the feeling/impression that it is more exploitative to visit strip clubs then to view nudes - but I don't have any hard evidence to back that up.
Also, it has been pretty traditional that liberals/progressives are the ones who are 'protecting' pornography, while conservatives are the ones who have been interested in censoring it.
This Wiki page briefly references studies in the US, Japan, and Denmark. It arrives at the conclusion that the link between porn and any decline in violence against women is inconclusive. I think that conclusion is unfair because it is based on (1) the fact the studies establish only a correlation, rather than causation, and (2) a Canadian study of some aspect of the porn question that is not directly related to the US, Japanese, and Danish studies.
Also, the Wiki page fails to mention other studies done in other countries on the same issue of porn and violence. But that might be understandable. I've been looking for those other studies myself without success. I recall reading about them some time ago, however.
To sum, I think the Wiki page is hedging its bets -- maybe too much Astasia.
One thing to be clear about: There is almost certainly a huge difference between violent and non-violent porn. I say that because it is a fact -- an intentionally repressed fact, but a fact nonetheless -- that a clear causal relationship has been established over the past 20 to 30 years between viewing violence and acting out violence. In other words, it is reasonably established that seeing violence causes violent behavior. Those findings have been repressed but they can be dug up if you persist at it. So, I would guess, Astasia, that violent porn might very well increase violence towards women even if non-violent porn reduces it.
Astasia: "...I have the feeling/impression that it is more exploitative to visit strip clubs then to view nudes."
I love strip clubs, but then, I treat the women who work in those clubs as persons first and foremost, rather than as mere objects. I am a witness, however, that not everyone even has my remedial and basic decency. Many men, especially men in their 20s and 30s, would not even know how to treat a woman as a unique and special person in her own right, let alone do it. If they are married or in relationships, I pity their wives and girlfriends.
I hate how porn makes me a hypocrite - I can enjoy many types of porn, but I also know that this triple venn diagram is all sorts of truthful.
For "porn", I prefer the site that began the simple nudes movement. I like the way the women are confident, open, and at ease with their nudity, Astasia.
ReplyDeleteThe models at DOMAI remind me of the times I've spent hanging out at nudist resorts. The people there are also confident, open, and at ease with their nudity -- in addition to their being completely accepting of your nudity, too.
But you know, the models at DOMAI are almost non-sexual. Just like nudists are almost non-sexual. That last fact completely surprises most non-nudists.
So, when I'm looking for sexy porn, I usually go somewhere else. When I'm looking for beauty, I go to DOMAI.
"So, tell me again why it's progressive to support porn?"
ReplyDeleteI was very short on sleep when I posted early, Astasia, and I failed to address your question but instead rambled on about my favorite nudes. Sorry about that. I love nudes, but that's irrelevant here.
More to the point, I've gotten some rest, and a couple reasons Progressives might want to consider supporting first amendment rights when it comes to porn have popped into my head.
First, there are those nagging studies of Japan, Denmark, the US, and other countries that have found a strong correlation between legalizing porn and declining rates of violence towards women.
It would be one thing if only one or two countries had been studied. Or if the correlations discovered were rather weak. But several countries have been studied and the correlation between easy, legal availability of porn and declining rates of rape, incest, molestation, etc. is just too strong to ignore.
To sum: When a society allows porn, rates of rape, etc decline.
A second reason Progressives might want to consider supporting first amendment rights regarding porn is to prevent the Right or Left from using porn as an excuse to censor political speech.
It seems the case that whenever some bastard politician wants to censor political speech he or she first proposes that porn be censored in order to protect children. And once that censorship is allowed, once the foot of censorship is in the door, the next step is to censor political speech.
So to prevent that process, Progressives might wish to support first amendment rights regarding porn.
Those are two reasons I feel are strong ones for why porn rights should be supported by Progressives.
I'm with Paul on this one. I've always enjoyed nudes and non-penetrative lesbian porn, but once you start getting XXX it turns me off. I still feel like a hypocrite, because I feel exploitative if I visit a strip club (or even somewhere like Hooters). I guess with the modest porn I enjoy the women have already had their pictures taken, I'm just enjoying what is already out there to be taken freely. Mostly I have 100 or so images on my HD that I've kept around for years (some of them a decade old or more) but when I do find new stuff it's on places like Domai or MET.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the venn diagram, and I wasn't aware that it was progressive to support porn. Maybe to support the freedom of expression, although with the racism, violence, and exploitation I've never felt it to be progressive. The idea that "these girls know what they are getting into" or "it's their choice" argument smack of free market lack of regulation speech to me.
Paul, could you link me to the studies that find correlations between more porn and better treatment of women? I've never heard that argument before.
ReplyDeleteI understand the free speech idea...I'm certainly not saying that we need to censor all pornography, but I think there is something disturbing about the trends in pornography. It seems to be progressively getting more violent, more sexist (and maybe more racist?). And this is not referring to nude photography (although, some nudes can be rather disturbing as well) - I mean hardcore pornography. Anal sex and gangbangs are now common place; perhaps almost passe and naive.
And, while it may be somewhat disturbing to think of thirty year olds watching these trends, I think we have to be realistic and understand that there are also fourteen year olds accessing this type of pornography. What happens when this hardcore, degrading, sexist, violent porn becomes your norm? I'm worried about it. That's why I hope that your study is right and I'm wrong.
Sean, I have the feeling/impression that it is more exploitative to visit strip clubs then to view nudes - but I don't have any hard evidence to back that up.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it has been pretty traditional that liberals/progressives are the ones who are 'protecting' pornography, while conservatives are the ones who have been interested in censoring it.
This Wiki page briefly references studies in the US, Japan, and Denmark. It arrives at the conclusion that the link between porn and any decline in violence against women is inconclusive. I think that conclusion is unfair because it is based on (1) the fact the studies establish only a correlation, rather than causation, and (2) a Canadian study of some aspect of the porn question that is not directly related to the US, Japanese, and Danish studies.
ReplyDeleteAlso, the Wiki page fails to mention other studies done in other countries on the same issue of porn and violence. But that might be understandable. I've been looking for those other studies myself without success. I recall reading about them some time ago, however.
To sum, I think the Wiki page is hedging its bets -- maybe too much Astasia.
One thing to be clear about: There is almost certainly a huge difference between violent and non-violent porn. I say that because it is a fact -- an intentionally repressed fact, but a fact nonetheless -- that a clear causal relationship has been established over the past 20 to 30 years between viewing violence and acting out violence. In other words, it is reasonably established that seeing violence causes violent behavior. Those findings have been repressed but they can be dug up if you persist at it. So, I would guess, Astasia, that violent porn might very well increase violence towards women even if non-violent porn reduces it.
Astasia: "...I have the feeling/impression that it is more exploitative to visit strip clubs then to view nudes."
ReplyDeleteI love strip clubs, but then, I treat the women who work in those clubs as persons first and foremost, rather than as mere objects. I am a witness, however, that not everyone even has my remedial and basic decency. Many men, especially men in their 20s and 30s, would not even know how to treat a woman as a unique and special person in her own right, let alone do it. If they are married or in relationships, I pity their wives and girlfriends.